Hi Folks: I just came across this brilliant
interview that appeared in New Internationalist,
September 2003. Thought you might like it.

-tooker

John Schumaker: Your worst critics claim that you are crazy.

Paul Watson: The film Trashing The Planet implied I was
insane because when I was 12 I shot another boy in the
ass with a BB gun who was about to shoot a bird. I
thought this amusing because in my neighborhood in New
Brunswick, in eastern Canada, every 12-year-old boy
shot at other boys with their BB guns for fun. The
difference between them and myself was that I actually
had a practical reason for shooting the kid. He
received a bruised posterior and the bird lived. I was
happy with that.

JS: Why are you so pessimistic about the prospect of
governments making a difference?

Watson: To me government is an organized body that
oversees the mass destruction of human and non-human
life. Governments sell the licences to over-fish, to
clear-cut, to hunt, to drain swamps and to destroy
wetlands. Politicians seem to be incapable of action
unless they are reacting to situations that force them
to take action. Even then their actions are
unimaginative and indiscriminate.

For example, the US acted in reaction to the attack on
the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. The
Government's motivation ever since has been fear,
primarily the fear of appearing impotent. Their
actions have for the most part focused on curtailing
the freedoms of their own citizens and imposing more
restrictive immigration policies against innocent
peoples wanting to enter the United States. The US
Government has also reacted by waging war against
Afghanistan and then Iraq to cover up the failure to
destroy al-Qaeda.

War is always good for making it appear that something
is being done. However, none of this will end
terrorism. Terrorism won't end until the root causes
are removed. The removal of the root causes - poverty,
totalitarian regimes supported by the US,
environmental destruction - requires an imagination
and an applied intelligence that government
bureaucracy is simply incapable of providing.

JS: Will any of our current world leaders make 'a good
ancestor', to use one of your terms?

Watson: I have struggled over the years to identify a
world leader who has made a difference with regard to
conservation and the environment and I haven't found
one. There are many who pay lip service but none who
have taken action. Gro Harlem Brundtland of Norway
spoke strongly about sustainability and the need to
take action yet her country is involved with illegal
whaling, ruthless over-fishing, destructive salmon
farming, over-exploitation of its forests and the
eradication of the wolf. Norway has talked the talk,
especially when lecturing to Third World nations. But
the reality is they dictate solutions they do not
support in practice in their own country.

JS: You once commented that the 'average Joe' lives in
a world of illusion and fantasy, and prefers it that
way.

Watson: The great majority of people live in a reality
defined by the mass media. Modern media defines
morality, political and spiritual views, as well as
our heroes and our ideals. The industry of illusion is
one of the most lucrative on Earth and it is certainly
the industry that has the most profound impact on our
daily lives. Media entertains us and in return we sign
our soul over to the media moguls and worship at their
house of commerce.

JS: Whatever happened to freedom?

Watson: In the US we are slaves to a perverse
definition of freedom. We are free, by god, and if you
don't agree that we are free we might have to throw
you into jail until you agree with us. We have freedom
of speech until we speak. We have freedom of assembly
until we assemble and then we are dispersed by riot
police. We have the freedom to express ourselves until
we actually express ourselves. Freedom in the United
States is a concept not an actuality. You agree with
us or you agree with terrorism. The US has the best
damn government money can buy. The Parliament of
Whores in Washington is more loyal to the idea of
commerce with the People's Republic of China than it
is to the freedom of its own citizens. Unfortunately
most human beings believe that the oppressor is their
saviour.

JS: Since the 'average Joe' inevitably votes out of
self-interest, isn't democracy a curse from an
environmental standpoint?

Watson: Democracy may or may not be a good idea. It
really has never been tried. The real problem is that
people can be controlled. The citizen is a crop to be
cultivated and harvested for the money required to
support the bureaucracy. All the citizen sheep require
is a shepherd (leader) to provide bread and circuses
and to whisper electronic promises of security into
their ears at night. And it is so easy to do in a
media culture with television and sophisticated
technologies to supply a diverse smorgasbord of
entertainment.

JS: Speaking of circuses, you describe celebrities as
the aristocrats of today's 'cultural circus'. Yet you
rely heavily on them for support. Aren't they some of
the biggest ecological hypocrites on the planet?

Watson: In our culture people who make a living
pretending to be other people have the most
credibility. I don't look on our celebrity
spokespeople as hypocrites. I see them as having the
wisdom and courage to harness their celebrity status
for causes they believe in.

JS: We hear a lot today about the collapse of
compassion in consumer society. Is that hampering the
environmental movement?

Watson: Yes, compassion is declining. Add to this the
internet - the latest media narcotic - and you find a
wholesale retreat, especially amongst young people,
into the matrix-like world of cyberspace. This is
creating the perception of the natural world as an
alien place and removing humanity even further from
nature than before.

JS: You said recently that we are losing the battle.
Why?

Watson: We are losing the battle because we live in a
culture that nurtures us on materialism and promotes
greed as a virtue. We are also taught to deny the
consequences of greed.

I do see a solution but my solutions are unacceptable.
I would curb the powers of corporations. I would
implement serious educational programmes to reduce
population growth. I would take away control of the
media from special interests. I would outlaw
advertising. I would create an international
organization to police international conservation law.
I would outlaw animal experimentation and give rights
to other species and ecosystems. We give rights to
corporations so why shouldn't trees have standing
before law?

JS: Isn't it a colossal irony that our species is, as
you put it, so ecologically stupid?

Watson: It is very much a cultural problem. Our story
is self-centred. We equate intelligence with
technology. Our religions are exclusive to our
species. We have excluded ourselves from the natural
world. We are the Titanic sinking slowly into the
darkness of extinction due to our own stupidity. We
saw the iceberg coming but we were too busy dancing in
the ballroom to take action to avoid it.

And as the ship sinks ever deeper we toss out other
species to make more room in the lifeboats for even
more human passengers. Meanwhile, governments are more
concerned about arranging the deck chairs and
organizing the shuffleboard games even to notice that
we are sinking.

JS: You mentioned religion. I see that your name has
made the 'Celebrity Atheist List' next to Bruce Willis
and Sir Edmund Hillary.

Watson: I reject any religion that places humanity at
its centre and all the world's religions do that. A
biocentric planetary religion that promotes ecological
ethics would be ideal but I do not envision such an
innovation until it is too late.

JS: Do you see a link between overpopulation and
biological meltdown?

Watson: I regard the diminishment of ecological
carrying capacity and the extinction of plants and
animals as the most important problems facing the
future of evolution on Earth. Both problems are the
result of out-of-control population growth. In 1972
when I attended the UN Conference on the Environment
in Stockholm human overpopulation was the number one
issue. Twenty years later when I attended the UN
Conference on the Environment and Development in
Brazil the issue of human population was not even on
the agenda. If humanity does not implement a solution
to the population problem, nature will deliver a very
unpleasant solution and our lack of action today will
guarantee an ecological nightmare for the people of
the next few generations.

JS: What do you make of the latest emphasis on 'family
values'?

Watson: Family values have become a distraction.
Concentrating on the nuclear family has led to
wholesale ignorance and neglect of the family of
nature. We share this planet with millions of other
species and we ignore their welfare at our peril. We
must get out of this vicious circle where we live only
to perpetuate our family name. There are more
important things than the nuclear family - like
conservation of biodiversity, the need to lower human
populations and the interdependence of species. The
family is a concept used by government to keep us
under control. So many people tell me that they would
like to help protect endangered species and habitats
but they can't do much because of family obligations.
In the end what is the good of family without a
healthy environment to make life liveable and
possible? Conservation and protection of the carrying
capacity of the planet must be and should be the first
priority of every person.

JS: In 1994, you predicted the collapse of the cod
fishery in the North Atlantic. That's now become a
tragic reality. Any more predictions?

Watson: I can safely predict that we will see more
single-hulled oil tanker spills. My predictions for
this new century are that in addition to oil wars we
will see water wars, more fishery wars and other
resource wars. A war will be fought over control of
the resources of Antarctica. Canada and the US will go
to war over water. Europe and Africa will go to war
over fishing in African waters. And of course the
media will continue to report that the experts from
government and industry assure us that everything is
all right.
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John F Schumaker is a psychologist living in
Christchurch, New Zealand/Aotearoa. His latest book is
The Age of Insanity.

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